Forum:Interactive periodic table

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Sent to Romartus and Spike:

I have User:Sog1970/Interactive Periodic Table, which I started a million years ago and then kicked into the long grass for so long that I forgot it existed. I was thinking that, if I moved it into mainspace along with the element pages I did at the time, it might make for an old fashioned collaborative project where anyone could add an element page as and when they have an idea for one. Any interest? Alternatively, I could paste it into the bottom of the existing Periodic Table page, which isn't too bad. And again, we could all edit. On the other hand, I doubt it would be worth me moving it to mainspace until at least 20% of the elements were done if it's going to be me only adding anything because it would take me months to finish. In which case, it'll probably get forgotten about again before that happens. Sog1970 (talk) 20:51, 14 April 2021 (UTC)

Romartus replied

Ah, the Periodic Table. I always fail at University Challenge on this one. I would leave it as a subpage until more is fleshed out. I am willing to pitch in with ideas. The symbols link to a subpage. I see what you have done could work like this: https://www.rsc.org/periodic-table --RomArtus*Imperator ITRA (Orate) ® 23:05, 14 April 2021 (UTC)

Yes, I think that was the plan. Seems to work like thay okay from where it is now as a section of Periodic Table - although I can't match that format. Anyone could press a red link and write an article - perhaps the less linked to Chemistry, the better. Sog1970 (talk) 11:46, 15 April 2021 (UTC)

Spike replied

Bring it on! Periodic Table has a nice Intro, but the meat (how to memorize) is dippy and listy. This could be replaced by your table. Its See Also has the Idiotic Table, where everything is fictionalized and less related to reality, and the Canadian Table, which is a bit of Canada-cruft and no table at all.

By all means, don't start a constellation of subpages. Instead, have the links go to mainspace pages, and move the existing subpages into mainspace pages. The nav-template at the bottom of Periodic Table suggests you already have a head start if you organize it this way. The "elements" will no longer link back to your Periodic Table but the reader can always get back there.

One annoyance, the table as currently formatted is too wide for my screen, and doesn't really need the large type size. Spıke 🎙️21:15 14-Apr-21

"Instead, have the links go to mainspace pages, and move the existing subpages into mainspace pages." I notice some are duplicated e.g. User:Sog1970/Interactive Periodic Table/Be and Beryllium. But we could start moving the others like User:Sog1970/Interactive Periodic Table/Ho to Holmium.

Eventually, maybe we could replace {{Element}} with a tinier version of Sog1970's table? (We could make it more like One of Wikipedia's periodic table templates). That way the footer on all the chemistry pages would be an interactive periodic table, and we'd know what elements are yet to be added. I'd be willing to work on the styling of the table if that's okay. Dark Web, White Hat (talk) 00:53, 15 April 2021 (UTC)

Great ideas, all! However, let's treat Sog1970 as the "project manager." Spıke 🎙️01:19 15-Apr-21

I’m going to do the above. Where a page like Beryllium already exists, I’ll make the page linked to this table “Beryllium.” - I’m imagining that the full-stop will distinguish between them and anyone who searches for Beryllium can read the existing page. I’m not sure what I was doing with the formatting ten years ago, so I don’t know quite what to do to deal with Spikes’s issue. Puppy was always my point of reference for format issues Sog1970 (talk) 09:04, 15 April 2021 (UTC)

Currently

I've moved it to the Periodic Table page and reduced the size. As far as I can see, it fits on a laptop and on an Ipad screen (both portrait and landscape), but on a phone you can see about half. However, it's perfectly possible to scroll across to see the rest on a phone. Changing the format to improve on that is beyond me, I think. Sog1970 (talk) 11:48, 15 April 2021 (UTC)

Works for me now. But I still say, move the subpages to their own articles in mainspace and, rather than get each of them to point back to Periodic Table, make your graphic a nav-template at the bottom of all of them. Spıke 🎙️12:01 15-Apr-21

Oh, I see what you mean now. That would work. Although, that would kind of force people to write Chemistry-related articles for each element. The way it is now there can be a Beryllium article and a different one for Interactive Periodic Table/Be which could be about anything. I'm not sure we're going to have quite enough to say to write a semi-convincing Chemistry article on each of the 100 and something elements Sog1970 (talk) 12:27, 15 April 2021 (UTC)

No, that point's not valid because, under either format, an author is free to make a Beryllium article really about Beryllium or about something else so long as it's funny. There is surely little funny to say about the whole Lanthanum Series. But if there are enough gems elsewhere, we can move readers to click on each one, just to find out. In either format, red-links will remain, and can be taken as invitations to write. Spıke 🎙️12:52 15-Apr-21

I'll see which elements already have a page. If I link the Table to those and then also put the table at the bottom of any existing element pages. That covers all bases and there will still be plenty of elements for which people can write pages - Chemistry-related or not. Sog1970 (talk) 18:27, 15 April 2021 (UTC)

But don't do it both ways! Dark Web suggests above that you use Template:Elements to hold your table (or a tinier version of it, along Wikipedia lines). She even volunteered to do the work. Spıke 🎙️18:39 15-Apr-21

Oh, good. because I've no idea about templates. I've linked the table to currently existing pages and added a Periodic Table to each of those and deleted or moved my old subpages. Or at least I think so. There was a lot of repetitive editing but I don't think I missed much. However, a template would avoid a lot of cutting and pasting of the formatting for the table into new pages. Sog1970 (talk) 19:59, 15 April 2021 (UTC)

That is the entire idea about templates! You maintain one page and copy ("transclude") its contents into many other pages. Let Dark Web, White Hat make this work tonight. Spıke 🎙️20:06 15-Apr-21

Further thoughts: (1) All that repetitive editing should wind up in Template:Elements and it should be called from each page by {{Elements}}; (2) Fix errors (In is in a weird typeface) in the one page; (3) Boxes can be made to be the same width; I suspect Dark Web's idea of using Wikipedia's style will fix this and other things. In cases where a stylistic decision doesn't add any humor, we should ape Wikipedia to contribute to the illusion that you are reading Wikipedia and that it has simply gone sour. (4) Nav-templates should not include an explanation of how to use a nav-template or click on a link; (5) Nav-templates can, like {{U.S. justices}}, have a list below the meat of articles that aren't elements but are relevant, such as those "other" periodic tables on the site; (6) Nav-templates should have (with INCLUDEONLY) inclusion into suitable categories, so these don't need to be repeated either. Spıke 🎙️20:39 15-Apr-21

I'm about to start template editing. There are similarly-named templates {{Elements}} (a userbox template about chemistry being hard) and {{Element}} (a footer navbox listing multiple elements). To avoid future confusion, I'm moving Sog1970's work to a new {{Periodic table}} and putting that on the chemistry pages. Any further edits to the periodic table style can happen at {{Periodic table}} and will show up on all the pages. Dark Web, White Hat (talk) 23:35, 15 April 2021 (UTC)

Your different name is fine. And you are tireless! Spıke 🎙️00:13 16-Apr-21

😊 Dark Web, White Hat (talk) 00:25, 16 April 2021 (UTC)

It looks much better now. Thanks.Sog1970 (talk) 07:44, 16 April 2021 (UTC)

You're welcome. Spike made it look good. As of yesterday, it's on every chemical element page in mainspace. Sog1970: are Interactive Periodic Table/Os, Interactive Periodic Table/No, and User:Sog1970/Interactive Periodic Table/Fr ready for mainspace? They wouldn't require merging, it would just be simple moves. But I don't want to rush you, either, if you don't feel they're ready. Dark Web, White Hat (talk) 02:28, 17 April 2021 (UTC)

To be honest, I thought I’d done them all. Obviously not. I’ll try to make the changes when I canSog1970 (talk) 10:12, 17 April 2021 (UTC)

{{Element}} is now orphaned in favor of {{Periodic table}}, so I've deleted it, along with its (empty) talk page. With apologies to DWWH for deleting her meticulous addition of a recommendation to editors. (I mention the alternative in the Huff Log.) Spıke 🎙️13:39 17-Apr-21