Forum:Biblical proof that evolution occurred

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My dear followers of God, I come bearing a discovery of revolutionary value. This discovery shall destroy the school of Old Earth Creationism forever! (sadly, the Young Earth Creationists are beyond help). I have just discovered that the Bible SUPPORTS THE EVOLUTION THEORY!

Let us look at the bone of contention i.e, the Book Of Genesis. In here we read of how God created the world in 7 days (as the Old Earth Creationists rightly state, God's definition of "day" could be radically different from man's definition of day.). We then see how God created all the living beings, followed by man (again, no conflict with the evolutionary theory). The crystal clear proof that evolution did occur can be found in the tale of the Fall of Man.

We all know how that goes. God had an apple in the garden of Eden. Adam and Eve were forbidden to eat that apple unless they wanted to "die". A snake goes and tells Eve they probably will not die. And the rest is Biblical history.

The evolutionary theory states that humans evolved from reptiles. As you can see, the snake is a reptile, and Eve is a human. By telling Eve to eat from the forbidden apple, the snake was actually passing its traits of doubt and rudimentary self-awareness to Eve. Therefore, one of the key characteristics that define the man of today-rampant curiosity-driven defiance of authority-was initially present in the reptile! Therefore, the Bible actually figured out that humans evolved from reptiles long before Charles Darwin did! Boy did the Creationists get it all wrong! --Scofield & Dudes 09:58, May 23, 2012 (UTC)

You've just plugged the only hole in the Biblical account of creation. mAttlobster. (hello) 10:14, May 23, 2012 (UTC)

Eh, I never quite got why creationists had such a big problem with the evolution theory. It's a theory explaining how species change over time, not how everything in the universe came into existence. Additionally, I don't see how the scientific explanation of "the universe just popped into existence one day" beats "God created the universe one day". —Sir Socky (talk) (stalk) GUN SotM UotM PMotM UotY PotM WotM 10:51, 23 May 2012

I think they want to see the human race as a species of special interest to God. That's why they're kind of scared to admit that they came in the same way as every other living being. But the Bible clearly states that man was brought in from the dust, and Eve was brought in from the rib (or part of man). Again, perfectly in accordance with archaeological evidence if you assume that the first male homo sapien was born before the first female homo sapien. And science has always agreed with the Biblical statement of man being brought from the dust, as living things are made out of non-living matter, which are often found in the dust. As for what makes man special, the Bible yet again states that it was the apple Adam and Eve ate from, hence acquiring their state of self-awareness, which God also punished them for accordingly. All these statements can be validated and verified by scientific observations and the world around us, if you know how to think. --Scofield & Dudes 11:08, May 23, 2012 (UTC)

Hello, and I'm not really here. I used to belong to a church that supported New Earth creationism. They disputed the 4004BC thingy, but the statement that the Earth was created in 7 days was to them canon. (I in fact used to preach it. Yes, I was stupid.) The problem stems from Timothy 2 something. All scripture is the inspired word of God or something like that. If the Bible is the word of God, and Jesus is the Word of God (John Ch 1), then the Bible is as honest as Jesus is. If you can disprove a single line of scripture, you can disprove that Jesus was the son of God, and therefore the foundation of Christianity (Jesus, obviously) is false. Therefore the Church is like the "house built on shifting sands". (Sermon on the mount - I can't remember the book and chapter off the top of my head.) Therefore for Christianity to be true, the Bible must be the literal truth. Which then leads someone like me to write Intelligent mathematics. Sad, but true. Or true, but based on falsehood. Or something.                                • Puppy's talk page • 11:34, May 23, 2012 (UTC) The puppy who is too lazy to sock properly.)

A wizard did it! Honestly though, basing a religion on a book is a pretty stupid concept. The Bible might as well be full of inaccuracies. That doesn't disprove God or mean that Jesus was a fraud, though. People are imperfect, so you can't expect them to write stuff down without misinterpreting a thing or two. For the writers to have written down everything correctly, God would've had to posses them. A clear violation of their free will. So the whole notion is nonsensical to begin with. Additionally, to assume that what God would call a day and what we, mere mortals, usually call a day is exactly the same thing seems a bit presumptuous. —Sir Socky (talk) (stalk) GUN SotM UotM PMotM UotY PotM WotM 12:04, 23 May 2012

A piece of my life: At school, a nun was teaching us in 6th grade, and someone read a passage of the bible of his choosing in front of the class each morning. We would then discuss it, God is Love blahblahblah. When my turn came, I read a passage of The Apocalypse. That created quite an awkward moment, the discussion about God was fairly short that morning :P Mattsnow 12:16, May 23, 2012 (UTC)

Heh. You should've read Isaiah 45-7: "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things." ; ) —Sir Socky (talk) (stalk) GUN SotM UotM PMotM UotY PotM WotM 12:21, 23 May 2012

Biblically it actually does say much the same thing. Something along the lines of "a day in heaven is a thousand years on Earth" or something like that. And as for free will - assuming that there is a God, and that he does determine the future, and that he is omnipotent and omnipresent, that means that he created a universe that he knew would follow a particular path. Or another way to think about it - if it was pre-destined that Jesus would come to Earth and die for our sins, and Jesus was human, doesn't that mean he had no free will as he was programmed to follow a certain path? Predestination/an omnipotent and omniscient being and free will are contradictory concepts in a logical universe.

Mind you, I'm a fan of epistemology, especially Socrates. He stated that we know nothing of the universe, and many other philosophers and scientists agreed. Assuming that a religion is based upon a concept of the universe works in a particular way, all religion is, by it's very nature, contradictory to this concept. Hell, even Hawking has disproven his own theories before - assuming total knowledge is the ultimate sign of arrogance.

And when I was a catholic boy preparing for my confirmation, the priest told my class that we were being confirmed at that age as we were adult enough to show that we were making a lifelong commitment to God. I said that I knew myself, and I didn't feel adult enough to make a commitment beyond an hour. His words - and this was the Priest responsible for my childhood religious education - were "Shut up, Justin."

Speaking of arrogance, you should probably be banning me around now.                                • Puppy's talk page • 12:29, May 23, 2012 (UTC)

That's one of the things I don't get. Why would God pre-determine the future? What would be the point in creating a complex system if all it does is behave exactly as predicted? And then the thing with the omni-adjectives. If there is a supreme God, surely he'd be the most powerful being in existence and he'd know all that can possibly be known. But that doesn't mean there can't be any unknowns, things God willingly leaves in a not-entirely-decided state.

As for preachy religions, that take pride in their scripture's supposed absolute truths, they're inherently sinful in nature. Pride is a cardinal sin, after all.

And don't worry, the ban is coming in due time. It might just take another divine nanosecond or two. —Sir Socky (talk) (stalk) GUN SotM UotM PMotM UotY PotM WotM 13:00, 23 May 2012

What was God doing before he created the universe? If he actually exists in some way as a physical entity then time must have some how existed. Did he just get bored and then decide he might as well create a universe as it was getting boring doing nothing with nothing. And after his seventh day resting what did he do on the eighth? mAttlobster. (hello) 14:41, May 23, 2012 (UTC)

Maybe God was just one magical being of many in a magical universe that existed prior to our own. Or something. More to the point, the perception many people seem to have that reality stretches only as far as the bounds of this universe and nothing (besides maybe a hypothetical God surrounded by an infinite expanse of emptiness) could've existed prior to it seems a tad presumptuous to me. —Sir Socky (talk) (stalk) GUN SotM UotM PMotM UotY PotM WotM 15:49, 23 May 2012

Like Laplace said to Napoleon: The universe works and exists fine without the assumption of a creator. --Hotadmin4u69 ^[TALK] 19:08 May 24 2012

That goes for pretty much every assumption. —Sir Socky (talk) (stalk) GUN SotM UotM PMotM UotY PotM WotM 19:25, 24 May 2012

Fair point. --Hotadmin4u69 ^[TALK] 21:58 May 24 2012

It should be pointed out that at the time 2 Timothy was written, 2 Timothy wasn't scripture. Yes, I know that I just blew your mind. Sir Modusoperandi ^Boinc! 21:34, May 23, 2012 (UTC)

I'm too lazy to write an essay on why I think god obviously doesn't exist

So I'm linking this video instead. Watch it. File:10 questions that every intelligent Christian must answer →A (Ruins) 16:00, May 23, 2012 (UTC)

I have a question for you. Why do smart, perfectly rational people choose to completely rule out the possibility of the existence a supreme entity, just because one or more popular religions prove to be pretty nonsensical and/or because this supreme entity might not be benevolent? Isn't calling God an ass more fun than saying he's imaginary? —Sir Socky (talk) (stalk) GUN SotM UotM PMotM UotY PotM WotM 16:36, 23 May 2012

No, it isn't more fun. Calling the people who are stupid enough to believe in such a thing assholes is much more pleasurable. I have a question for you, too. If we never talked about god, would it die out? Answer: Of course it would. If god was wiped from the heads of everybody on this planet (all deities and other godlike bullshit included), and people stopped preaching their shite to their kids and bringing them to church every day since day 1, the entire concept of "religion" and "deities" would die out forever. The only reason religion and nonexistant deities are still "around" (in people's minds) is because brainwashed parents brainwash their kids since the moment they pop out, and, as the great Offspring song "Way Down the Line" explains:

• Nothing changes cause it's all the same
• The world you get's the one you give away
• It all just happens again
• Way down the line

• There is a chain that's never broken
• You know the story it's sad but true
• An angry man gets drunk and beats his kids
• The same old way his drunken father did
• What comes around well it goes around

• Nothing changes cause it's all the same
• The world you get's the one you give away
• It all just happens again
• Way down the line

• At 17 Shannon is pregnant
• As young as her mom when she had her
• Her kid is never gonna have a dad
• The same old way that Shannon never had
• What comes around well it goes around

• Nothing changes cause it's all the same
• The world you get's the one you give away
• It all just happens again
• Way down the line

• And all the things you learn when you're a kid
• You'll fuck up just like your parents did
• It all just happens again
• Way down the line

• And welfare moms have kids on welfare
• And fat parents they have fat kids too
• You know it's never gonna end
• The same old cycle's gonna start again
• What comes around well it goes around

• Nothing changes cause it's all the same
• The world you get's the one you give away
• It all just happens again
• Way down the line

• And all the things you learn when you're a kid
• You'll fuck up just like your parents did
• It all just happens again
• Way down the line

→A (Ruins) 17:05, May 23, 2012 (UTC)

Ironically enough, you've just proven what I suspected: People say God doesn't exist because they hate religion and everything associated with it, not because they actually have a rational reason for ruling out the existence of every entity that might be considered a God/god. Not that I don't disagree with you that dogmatic religions are a bad thing and parents imposing their religion on their children is a violation of every person's right to individual thought. But be careful when you talk about wiping the concept of a "deity" from people's heads. Atheists have as little right as anyone else to decide for others what they should be thinking. —Sir Socky (talk) (stalk) GUN SotM UotM PMotM UotY PotM WotM 17:38, 23 May 2012

You appear to have ignored that video I posted, good sir. There are ten good examples of why god doesn't exist, and it applies to most all religions. →A (Ruins) 17:43, May 23, 2012 (UTC)

I did watch it, and the questions were successful in showing that a benevolent, loving, caring God that regularly answers prayers and performs miracles is pretty much an impossibility in this universe, I'll hand you that. Most of the questions are still focused on a Christian conception of God, however. But I'll go over them if that'll make you happy.

1. Why won't God heal amputees? Because God doesn't answer prayers, maybe? Yeah, so he's not that loving or caring. Big deal. People have come up with apathetic and evil conceptions of God throughout history.
2. Why are there so many starving people in our world? Ditto as above.
3. Why does God demand the death of so many innocent people in the Bible? Ah, the Bible. In case you didn't know it yet, in many of the stories in the Hebrew Bible, God is very clearly a sadistic asshole. It's less apparent in the New Testament, though letting his son die on the cross isn't a very nice thing either. Not that you should expect scriptures to sketch a very consistent image of God or even one that makes sense. They're only books, after all.
4. Why does the Bible contain so much anti-scientific nonsense? It's not exactly a non-fiction book, you know. And you don't have to take everything in it literally, like those YE creationists do.
5. Why is God such a huge proponent of slavery in the Bible? Ugh, the Bible again. Next question!
6. Why do bad things happen to good people? Because God doesn't care, is an ass etc.
7. Why didn't any of Jesus' miracles in the Bible leave behind any evidence? Because they were geologically insignificant or simply didn't happen. And yet again a very Christianity-based question.
8. How do you explain the fact that Jesus has never appeared to you? Seriously? Even if Jesus really was as divine as the scriptures claim, there's no way he'd appear to just any self-righteous bastard that has that big of an ego to consider himself worthy.
9. Why would Jesus want you to eat his body and drink his blood? Because he had a vore fetish? Or the pagan ritual explanation fits too. More related to the tendency of Christianity to absorb rituals of other beliefs throughout history as opposed to any actually sensible conception of a supreme being.
10. Why do Christians get divorced at the same rate as non-Christians? Because people are hypocrites.

None of these questions successfully rule out the existence of a non-benevolent God. That doesn't mean you have to believe there is one, just that you can't rationally rule out the possibility completely. —Sir Socky (talk) (stalk) GUN SotM UotM PMotM UotY PotM WotM 18:58, 23 May 2012

Question for you again: Can God do things to you? As a person, on Earth. Physical things. →A (Ruins) 20:41, May 23, 2012 (UTC)

Now I have a question for you: Are they sexy things? Sir Modusoperandi ^Boinc! 21:34, May 23, 2012 (UTC)

I suppose these sexy things are the reason why after coming into contact with a religious man I always feel I must wash my hands.--Sycamore (Talk) 21:41, May 23, 2012 (UTC)

Hypothetically, maybe. That depends on what conception of God you have in mind, really. You could think of an entity that can create universes as it wishes, but can't interact with them once they're created as the entity isn't part of the created universes. You could call that a God. But alternatively, there could also be a God that has the power to manifest in some form inside the created universes, because the universes are actually a part of his being, or because he has the technology to travel between universes (along with other mind-boggling abilities, no doubt). Or maybe God can't actually manifest in here, but can still change things inside our universe from the outside, like how a programmer can change things inside a simulated reality while it's "running". But basically, any sentient being with reality-warping powers can be dubbed a "deity", it doesn't even need to have originated outside this universe. Hell, once humans have evolved themselves into sentient swarms of nearly indestructible nanobots capable of various technical feats almost unimaginable at the present, they might as well be equated to deities. This is all hypothetical, of course. For all I know, there is no God and a meteorite will wipe out humanity tomorrow. —Sir Socky (talk) (stalk) GUN SotM UotM PMotM UotY PotM WotM 22:11, 23 May 2012

If you have no idea what you're talking about, maybe you should stop arguing with me =P →A (Ruins) 02:25, May 24, 2012 (UTC)

@Aimsplode I think it is you who has no idea what Socky is talking about. Anyways, the way I looked at God really changed significantly after I watched Tron:Legacy. That's right, Tron:Legacy. People look for religious allegories in all sorts of films and novels et al, and I saw my religious allegories in this film.

Let me explain what I mean. Jeff Bridges, aka Flynn from Tron, created his own cyberspace universe to help matters with the "real" universe. He was but a human, so he created/borrowed computer programs to aid him in his task. Programs such as Tron and CLU. So he creates this whole flashy-lights world and Isomorphic Algorithms, or some advanced beings that are holding a ton of solutions within them, evolve from the earlier population (evolution FTW!). However, CLU does not like these new beings (kind of reminds me of Lucifer who, according to legend, didn't like....well, us) so he stages a coup, forcing Flynn to run in exile. He then initiates a brutal genocide of the ISOs (only one survives). He sets up a totalitarian rule, setting himself up as a dictator, forcing everybody to kiss his ass-as this appears to be his definition of "perfection"-and Flynn just sits there in the corner, in exile. Hell, CLU doesn't even get overthrown until that son of Flynn gets snaked into this cyberspace.

What if our real God is like that? I mean, maybe we're not being ruled by Lucifer (or else the human race wouldn't have made it this far, you know) but a lot of what Socky said makes sense to me. Even if God was benevolent and lived and thought like us humans, maybe the chaos in the universe spiraled out of even His control. He could not create the universe where all human beings would be happy, because he wasn't the perfect guy for the job to begin with. His own flaws are now showing in the world we live in, and just like Flynn, he sits in a corner, hoping for things to sort themselves out.

And of course, this is just a theory. Who knows what God really wants, or whether He even wants anything! As a race which has been proven wrong time and again, we really shouldn't be harping on so much about "the absolute truth" or "the definitive reality" because in my opinion, neither of those two exist. --Scofield & Dudes 15:47, May 24, 2012 (UTC)

I must admit I never expected this much depth to any debate on Uncyclopedia, ever. Scofield, I must admit I am quite interested in your theory, and I immensely enjoyed reading it. Although now I feel like a peasant in an endless sea of nothing. I guess that is one of the aspects of pondering the history of humanity. →A (Ruins) 16:02, May 24, 2012 (UTC)

Your ideas are intriguing to me and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter. Sir Modusoperandi ^Boinc! 16:16, May 24, 2012 (UTC)

It's called the UnSignpost, and it's getting shut down...or is it?! →A (Ruins) 16:40, May 24, 2012 (UTC)

P.S, for further enlightenment you people can view my recent blog post on gay people. --Scofield & Dudes 19:45, May 24, 2012 (UTC)

Nice blog, Scofield. —Sir Socky (talk) (stalk) GUN SotM UotM PMotM UotY PotM WotM 12:17, 26 May 2012

I've been holding off on this...

...but maybe now it's time to do up an UnNews or a page proving evolution. Seriously, I can prove evolution happened, that we are indeed apes, and as far as I know the "theory" is unique and hasn't shown up anywhere else. Sigh. I'll do a thread for ATS on this as well, but will unveil it here first. (I'm serious too). Have to funny it up though. I don't know if the Bible is involved, but probably at some point. Hello fellow apes! Aleister 19:29 25-4-'12 (UTC)

You're wrong, Aleister. Humans aren't apes, because hardly anyone understands the term "apes" as including humans. The way language works (or most things that involve a community of people for that matter), the generally accepted usage of a term is what is considered the "correct" usage of a term. So only if you can get the majority of people to call humans "apes" will you be able to rightly call humans "apes". The reason why the usage you describe isn't the current usage is because common languages (or more precisely, the people that speak them) identify animals morphologically, not cladistically. That's why you won't hear a lot of people call birds "dinosaurs" or amphibians "fish". But if you want to revolutionize the way language works, by all means, you're free to do so. Personally, trying to make people call apples "dinosaurs" seems a lot more fun, though. : ) —Sir Socky (talk) (stalk) GUN SotM UotM PMotM UotY PotM WotM 19:45, 24 May 2012

I call birds dinosaurs. And humans apes. The only way to prove evolution is for people to say "You know, this convinces me" - and that's what I'll do, ya ha ha, I shall do that. And birds are dinosaurs. I've actually talked to zoo officials trying to get them to add dinosaur to the name of their bird houses, but that's a lost cause for awhile. I actually talked to one zoo president and he said that humans aren't apes because we descended from Adam and Eve. I involuntarily laughed in his face - this was the head of a zoo! Luckily it was just he and I, so I didn't cause too much of an embarrasment, and later had a larger meeting with him with an animal rights groups I was involved with. Good times. Aleister 19:55 24-5-'12

Well, if people are willing to accept that

1. genes are passed down from parent organisms
2. genes decide various features of an organism
3. genomes naturally vary among different specimens
4. different features can result in different survival rates
5. as time passes, specimens that have certain features that give them a better chance of surviving will become more abundant than organisms that don't (as if that's not totally obvious and tautologous)

they will have automatically accepted evolution and natural selection as facts. If they're not willing to accept the things listed, they probably think genes are something scientists came up with to make belief in God redundant. ; ) —Sir Socky (talk) (stalk) GUN SotM UotM PMotM UotY PotM WotM 20:11, 24 May 2012

Hmmm, this sounds like an interesting topic to mix with say, Obesity.

Obesity may have a genetic component to it.

Obesity may be passed down from parent organisms, determining larger features of an organism

Obesity tends to vary as to where the weight is distributed (kids tend to gain weight in the same places as their parents typically)

Obesity can increase survival rates during a famine, but decrease survival rates when it becomes unfashionable, or causes complications such as diabetes.

Most of humanity has been exposed to famine at one time or another.

We are all doomed to either exercise our butts off or become obese. Evolution at its finest. -- Simsilikesims(♀GUN) Talk here. 22:30, May 24, 2012 (UTC)

What ever

Why does god only appear infront of illiterate peasants in backwater villages where not even a two story building could be constructed. Why doesn't he reveal himself at the opening of the Olympic games, or at the Oscars? I know why! It's because God is totally and utterly bored...so bored he can't be bothered to make a show of anything anymore. He takes a nap for a couple centuries, wakes up, and then randomly picks a poor sap who hasn't bathed in months, who has more slaves than donkeys and daughters who get him drunk. God then reveals his testament to the sucker, and then commands this poor idiot to spread gods word, he then throws him into a crowd of sceptical unbelievers and tortures all of them for infinity if they call him a nut case. Sounds like fun. I wish I was a god, eternal torture? Pff, thats nothing, I would be way better at it than him. . --ShabiDOO 22:35, June 11, 2012 (UTC)

Stop hitting a dead horse. →A (Ruins) ^{01:49, 12 June 2012}

God's bored? Has anyone sent my G-mail address to him yet? Cat the Colourful (Feed me!) Zzz 17:24, 14 June, 2012 (UTC)